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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: Kirby Drive reconstruction (US-59 to San Felipe) |
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Today in "Transportation Whatnot", I explain that the Upper Kirby TIRZ and Management District will begin reconstructing Kirby Drive, from US-59 north to San Felipe, in Jan 2008:
| Robin Holzer wrote: | The Upper Kirby TIRZ and Harris County Improvement District #3 (collectively, “Upper Kirby”) will install 72″ storm sewers in a section of Kirby that the FEMA project missed, from US-59 north to San Felipe. The goal is to improve storm water drainage and reduce street flooding. Absolutely everyone we’ve talked to, including neighbors in the adjacent Davy Crockett and Avalon Place neighborhoods, is excited about the storm water improvements.
Given that the storm sewer project requires tearing up and reconstructing the street, the Upper Kirby district also intends to make street improvements, to leave Kirby safer and more functional after the project. While some of the improvements, like adding a raised center median, are really important, other elements of the project plan, like widening the traffic lanes and pushing back the curbs, have raised controversy. |
The Upper Kirby District is inviting the public to come discuss the project plans at one community meeting on Sat Sept 15 from 9:00 to 11:00 am at their offices, 3015 Richmond at Eastside, 77098. For more information about the meeting, contact the district at (713) 524-8000.
In addition, Upper Kirby has now posted the 70% design schematics for the Kirby project on their website at http://upperkirby.org.
Roadside impacts of widening Kirby's driving lanes
John Cutler forwarded these renderings to help show possible impacts of widening Kirby's right-of-way. Each photo is of an existing location on Kirby Drive, and has been annotated to show the property line, the proposed curb line, and the width of the existing sidewalk. (Click on an image to get the full-size image.)
Public participation and accommodating all users
CTC members discussed Kirby at our August board meeting. While each of us has many concerns about the project, we discussed two primary collective concerns:
- Kirby is not only a place to visit but where thousands of Houstonians work. Kirby must therefore be accessible to everyone, including the one-in-five adult Texans who cannot drive. As we plan Kirby’s future, we must ensure it will accommodate all of its users well, including motorists, transit users, bicyclists, pedestrians, and the disabled.
- The 100 feet of publicly-owned right-of-way between property lines on Kirby is part of our shared “public realm”. That means we — the public — deserve some say over the design of Kirby’s future.
What are your thoughts about the project?
Last edited by Bob on Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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IHB2 Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 140
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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I live in the area, use Kirby daily, and wonder:
why is a center median essential? does the UKD plan to replace the trees and grass lost to widening (necessitated by creating a center median?) by planting the median? does a planted median do anything for pedestrians that currently have grass and shade along much of Kirby between 59 and San Felipe? is 6-8 feet enough space between a building wall and the curb for public safety?
since high density developments at Kirby and Westheimer promise to inundate the area with both new auto and pedestrian traffic, shouldn't the rebuild focus on accomodating that growth? |
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Ian Bus Driver

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 242 Location: Eastwood, Houston
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| On one hand, traffic on Kirby stinks and could probably greatly benefit from a roadway upgrade with center median. On the other hand, it looks like we're going to lose a lot of sidewalk space in some areas. Where the right of way is wide (~16'), some sidewalk could probably be sacrificed, although the resulting closeness to an adjacent building could limit that size and types of trees that could be planted. At other spots, such as shown in the Greenwood King photo, it looks like the sidewalk would be placed right next to the road -- which absolutely sucks for pedestrians. A safety concern on top of the omnipresent heat and traffic noise might well be enough to keep potential pedestrians in their cars. |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys: I now have up a lot more detail about the project issues in my blog. Please check it out and let me know what you think.
Also, Tory Gattis posted a great narrative of the issue tonight at Houston Strategies:
| Tory Gattis wrote: | | I think Trees for Houston makes a strong case. My impression is that the two sides are approaching the issue from different perspectives. The TIRZ perspective seems to be, "We're stuck with the city standard, and modest compromises to that won't save many trees, so we might as well go all the way." The TfH perspective seems to be "How can we think creatively and make some good compromises to save these trees?" |
Give it a read! |
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IHB2 Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 140
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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lots of good info bob.
while suicide lanes aren't the greatest design for traffic safety, and they aren't aesthetic visually like the UKD seems to want, they definitely reduce main lane backups where left turns into commercial or business establishments take place.
all I can say is that I cannot imagine any scenario with a raised median of any width that will not aggravate traffic backup on Kirby between 59 and San Felipe. so it's likely that overall auto traffic mobility will decline with the installation of a raised median. |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| IHB2 wrote: | | all I can say is that I cannot imagine any scenario with a raised median of any width that will not aggravate traffic backup on Kirby between 59 and San Felipe. so it's likely that overall auto traffic mobility will decline with the installation of a raised median. | On the other hand, there's nothing like a messy wreck to really back up traffic for blocks and blocks. But... your point about building adequate turning capacity is a good one. It seems to me that any raised median on Kirby will have to include really "deep" left-turn pockets at the major intersections, and some kind of left-turn pocket at every intersection. Otherwise, drivers who are waiting to turn block the through lanes. |
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carolcaul Bus Driver
Joined: 28 Nov 2005 Posts: 498 Location: Houston TX
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: Upper Kirby TIRZ & Redevelopment |
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Totally good info Bob.
One concern I had not heard addressed yet is specifically who would pay for the utilities being moved and buried. This will be a major expense, but in and of itself, it would add much to the beauty of the TIRZ. The issue of cost allocation should be specifically spelled out in an agreement between the parties.
General comments I have read were that utility burial might not be in the budget, but at the very least some utility movement would be required. It is not necessarily the TIRZ that would owe this money; it may be that CenterPoint owes some/all of such moneys. There are laws and regulations about who has to pay for utility movement (CenterPoint or TIRZ or COH), and there was a very famous (and ugly) 2006 case between HCTRA and Centerpoint about who had to pay to relocate light poles during construction of the Westpark Tollway. As of right now, HCTRA has to pay in that case.
I second the need for deep left turn lanes and leave out the raised medians. This is for the TIRZ which is at heart a business oriented concept. They pay for it, and it is for their development; however, I see a raised median as something that will continue to hold up traffic. That is, the lack of a raised median probably won't preserve any space for trees.
As for widening the ROW, that sounds very expensive; and I second the observations that the sidewalks would become dangerously narrow and too little space would be left for spreading trees.
Not all roads are the same width throughout. South of the TIRZ, the road won't be rebuilt, so why not carve out the residential area if their opposition is expected to be great enough to block the south of Westheimer or San Felipe redevelopment. Those people don't have any business being in a TIRZ anyway. (I personally object to nearly all TIRZ in Houston as an incestuous way for wealthy areas to preserve their wealth.) I personally observe traffic backed up every day through River Oaks to turn onto Shepherd; however, widening that portion of Kirby may only induce more traffic. In short, carve them out of the project to mitigate political opposition if they are not in the TIRZ. _________________ Carol Caul |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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David Crossley posted a good write-up of the Kirby issue in the Gulf Coast Institute's "Connections" blog:
| David Crossley, Gulf Coast Institute wrote: | September 12th, 2007
Kirby widening poses dangers
A fast-moving project to widen Kirby Drive, remove its trees, and make the pedestrian realm smaller needs some emergency attention from cool heads.
[snip]
Let’s tackle the widening of the lanes first. The national “Complete Streets” guiding principle is this: “A complete streets policy ensures that the entire right of way is routinely designed and operated to enable safe access for all users.” Those users include not only drivers, but pedestrians, bicyclists, and people in wheelchairs.
Given that the pedestrian realm in Houston has been routinely compromised almost everywhere in Houston over the last 50 years, it is imperative to insist that no project should ever again move the curbs outward from the centerline, except when all the adjoining private property moves away at the same rate to retain or improve the pedestrian realm. (That should be true for Metro projects, as well, by the way.) Considering that 40 percent of Houstonians do not drive, and that the City is becoming much denser, the pedestrian realm is not a place to simply steal space from for some imagined increased comfort of drivers.
This is particularly true if the reason to widen the car area is either pointless or even negative. That’s the case with the Kirby plan.
The two issues – widening the lanes and adding a median – are quite different. Widening travel lanes does not add any capacity at all. It merely suggests to drivers that maybe they can go faster because it feels a little more open. This principle is very well understood in the profession, and modern practice is to actually narrow streets in urban places in order to “calm” traffic. This has the effect of increasing safety for pedestrians and drivers as well...
Source: http://gulfcoastinstitute.org/connections/?p=35 |
To be clear, no one is calling to make the driving lanes on Kirby any narrower. Rather, we're arguing that driving lanes on Kirby are already the target width of 9.5 - 10 feet, and we should keep them that way. Kirby is one of very few streets in Houston that actually comes close to striking the right balance between driving space and pedestrian realm, with approximately 15 feet behind the curb on each side.
The norm in Houston for the past 20+ years has been to cannibalize the roadside in order to squeeze new lanes for car capacity into existing rights-of-way. But Kirby today -- which is rapidly becoming one of the densest streets in the city -- is the wrong place to do more of that.
There are improvements we can make to genuinely improve safety, like adding a raised median, and we should. But the marginal benefit of widening the driving lanes on Kirby is outweighed by the cost to the pedestrian realm.
There are also operational changes that could genuinely add capacity on Kirby, like synchronizing the traffic signals. In addition, requiring deliveries to be made on Kirby with midsize box trucks instead of enormous 18-wheel semi-trailers, as they do in other cities, would help as well. |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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In addition, Jennifer Friedberg has an article in today's Houston Chronicle "This Week" section for Heights and River Oaks:
| Jennifer Friedberg, Houston Chronicle wrote: | Sept. 11, 2007, 12:11PM
Storm drainage work targeted for Kirby project
By JENNIFER FRIEDBERG
Chronicle Correspondent
What began as a project by the Upper Kirby Redevelopment Authority to ease flooding problems in the David Crockett subdivision has turned into a massive redesign of the Kirby Drive streetscape from U.S. 59 north to Westheimer and raised concerns of local groups such as Trees for Houston and area businesses.
The Redevelopment Authority, also known as Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone 19, plans to begin the almost $50 million, 11-month storm drainage project in January.
It involves tearing up Kirby and widening traffic lanes and sidewalks.
The project costs include roughly $26 million for the storm drainage work from Richmond to Westheimer; about $13.24 million for the traffic and mobility piece from U.S. 59 to Westheimer; and about $10 million for burying overhead utility lines from U.S. 59 to Westheimer.
Travis Younkin, director of capital projects for the Upper Kirby District, said the TIRZ wants to use the opportunity to change the look of the street.
"We're trying to address storm drainage, safety, mobility and walkability with the same project. This is the best solution to address all of those goals," Younkin said.
However, widening the street will mean removing existing trees, which, along with a lack of public input, has peaked concerns of Trees for Houston and local businesses.
"We really didn't find out about this project until maybe four to five weeks ago and it's something that was advanced very far through the timeline," said Trees for Houston board member James Sivco. "They're going to start digging in the dirt on Jan. 1 (2008) and there hasn't been any input from anyone with an alternate view about what a pretty Kirby looks like."
A public meeting to discuss the project is 9-11 a.m. Saturday at the Upper Kirby District offices, 3015 Richmond Ave., Suite 100.
In regard to their concerns, Younkin said, "We're happy to work with Trees for Houston or any other entity."
Turn lanes
At present, Kirby Drive has three, 9-foot, 4-inch lanes on both sides, with a 10-foot wide continuous left turn lane in the middle from U.S. 59 north to Westheimer.
The TIRZ wants to widen the six travel lanes to 11 feet to meet city standards and create a 14-foot wide median in the center with left-turn bays and 4-foot wide pedestrian crossing zones.
Sidewalks would also be widened from 4 to 6 feet. While 11-foot wide lanes are the city standard, street widening can be considered individually.
"The city will have to sign off on our 90 percent design plans as well as final design to remain on schedule," Younkin said. "However, if the city is willing to bend their standards for street lane widths, we will pause to examine all alternatives and compromises possible to ensure this project is one all entities can be proud of."
The city did relax its standards for the Kirby drainage project south of U.S. 59 because area property owners wanted to keep the continuous left turn lane, the city would have had to take property to widen the street and it was too expensive.
Trees for Houston is upset because widening the street means that existing trees will have to be removed. The TIRZ says the trees will be replaced.
The number of trees the two groups say would be affected are different.
Sivco said his group and others planted more than 200 trees along Kirby in the past 10 years from U.S. 59 to San Felipe and there are concerns that 275 of those trees would be cut down.
"We're very much for the beautification of Kirby and making the intersections nice, but widening the street is going to do nothing but mow down 275 mature-growth trees along Kirby," Sivco said. "I don't think we could ever support something like this."
However, according to the TIRZ arborist's report, there are only 161 trees in the project area. With the proposed street widening, 143 live oaks and 18 smaller trees of the 161 trees would be removed.
Younkin said the discrepancy in numbers could be based on the fact that Trees for Houston is looking at an old version of the plans and it may be including trees between Westheimer and San Felipe, which would not be affected as the project will not stretch that far north.
Younkin said removed trees would be replaced on a two-for-one basis, with 250-300 new, 6- to 8-caliper inch trees to be planted on Kirby "so there will be a uniform canopy up and down the street."
"When complete, Kirby drive will be greener than it is now and the new trees will be free to grow without the limitation of overhead utilities," Younkin said.
He also said the TIRZ would try to relocate as many of the 143 trees as possible.
"Our arborist says that all trees under (a) 12-inch caliper can be relocated or at least attempted," Younkin said. "We are absolutely going to incur the cost of relocating all trees possible and will be replacing them on a two-for-one basis."
Sivco is skeptical.
"They're not going to be able to relocate those trees. They're all going to die," he said.
Business owners' concerns
Area businesses have also expressed concern for the trees.
A representative at Whole Foods, 2955 Kirby Drive, said company officials have heard arguments from both sides and want to learn more.
"Green spaces are important and there are ways of (removing and replanting trees) in a responsible way," said Candyce Speidel, media and community relations coordinator for Whole Foods in Houston. "We will be eager to hear and see what develops."
Real estate firm Greenwood King Properties, 3201 Kirby Drive, sent letters to Mayor Bill White and Houston City Council members on Sept. 4 stating its opposition to the project because of the tree removal issue.
District C City Council member Anne Clutterbuck, a member of the Trees for Houston advisory board, said she is working to help both sides reach an amicable solution.
"The problem is if we widen it at any point — even 18 inches — you lose trees," Clutterbuck said. "The question is, in my mind, how can we mitigate the damage if at all possible? What kind of compromise can be reached on the design?"
While Clutterbuck said public input is needed, she wants the project to be able to move forward in January because of flooding issues.
"I'm urging everybody to stay flexible," she said. "We are building a street that will last longer than any of us is alive. It's a unique opportunity to build something as beautiful as it is safe."
Source: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/bellaire/news/5125634.html |
I sincerely appreciate CM Clutterbuck's commitment to work with all the stakeholders and seek a collaborative solution! |
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IHB2 Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 140
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Jennifer Friedberg, Houston Chronicle wrote: | | The city did relax its standards for the Kirby drainage project south of U.S. 59 because area property owners wanted to keep the continuous left turn lane, the city would have had to take property to widen the street and it was too expensive. |
see what I mean? rewarding or damaging businesses by choosing where to place left turn cuts in a raised median, when unlimited left turn access currently exists, will not appeal to business owners north of 59 anymore than it did to business owners south of 59.
if there is data to prove that a raised median, rather than a continuous center lane, would ameliorate the accident rate along that stretch of Kirby, then the UKD should publish it. otherwise, the UKD's proposed median has only an aesthetic purpose, which, in combination with the widening of lanes, will serve only to make Kirby look more like a "boulevard."
it was one thing for the UKD to bully the Girl Scouts and try to move the Looscan Library, but springing this plan as a done deal hopefully has stirred the big dogs - the property owners on Kirby - to force UKD to come to the stakeholders with the plan. |
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christof Site Admin

Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 702 Location: Downtown
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| IHB2 wrote: | | otherwise, the UKD's proposed median has only an aesthetic purpose, which, in combination with the widening of lanes, will serve only to make Kirby look more like a "boulevard." |
You may be picturing something here that the plan doesn't propose. The median in question would be only 2 feet wide for most of its length. Only in 2 or 3 places would it be wide enough for plantings. The median is not an aesthetic improvement.
UK has data (which Robin cited) showing a large number of mid-block righ-angle collisions. A median would eliminate these collisions. It would also make access to businesses more roundabout. The decision to build or not build a median means weighing those two factors. _________________ ----------------------------
Christof Spieler |
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IHB2 Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 140
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| christof wrote: | | You may be picturing something here that the plan doesn't propose. The median in question would be only 2 feet wide for most of its length. Only in 2 or 3 places would it be wide enough for plantings. The median is not an aesthetic improvement. |
the reports on the plan including in today's chron refer to a 14 ft wide median. if it's 2 ft so be it, but a 2 ft median hardly provides a solution to my earlier point about backups behind left turners on the left through lane, and seemingly would not be wide enough to provide any protection to even one left turner. mobility would have to suffer compared to a continuous turn lane.
| Quote: | | UK has data (which Robin cited) showing a large number of mid-block right-angle collisions. A median would eliminate these collisions. It would also make access to businesses more roundabout. The decision to build or not build a median means weighing those two factors. |
a median will eliminate the number of places where such collisions could take place compared to a continuous lane, but undoubtedly not eliminate them altogether. my point was if the UKD has some data or predictions showing how much a median would reduce these kinds of collisions, then they should publish it to bolster their case. otherwise, property owners along Kirby, like their counterparts south of 59 would be likely to favor retaining the continuous lane, and for the same reasons. |
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christof Site Admin

Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 702 Location: Downtown
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| IHB2 wrote: |
the reports on the plan including in today's chron refer to a 14 ft wide median. if it's 2 ft so be it, but a 2 ft median hardly provides a solution to my earlier point about backups behind left turners on the left through lane, and seemingly would not be wide enough to provide any protection to even one left turner. mobility would have to suffer compared to a continuous turn lane. |
The reason the median is narrow is because of the left turn lanes. The left turn lanes replace most of the median at every intersection, leaving only a few short sections where the median is the full width. _________________ ----------------------------
Christof Spieler |
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christof Site Admin

Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 702 Location: Downtown
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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New on my blog, Intermodality: the math on the Kirby proposal:
| Quote: |
While the plan combines all three elements, they do not have to be combined. Adding the median and widening lanes takes 13 feet, leaving the sidewalk/tree space on each side at 10 feet. But the median alone only takes 4 feet, leaving 14'6" and saving most of the trees. And, of course, doing the storm sewer and burying the power lines while keeping the current street configuration leaves the sidewalk/tree space at 16'6" and saves all the trees.
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_________________ ----------------------------
Christof Spieler |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
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There's a great Viewpoints letter in today's Houston Chronicle about the Kirby project:
| B. Dee Davis, Jr wrote: | Upper Kirby versus Montrose redo
Houston has been having an ongoing debate with itself as to its future development. The Chronicle's Sept. 20 article "Montrose Blvd. may get new look" noted plans have been announced for the revitalization of Montrose Boulevard into a walkable street, with a vision to re-establish it as a major thoroughfare corridor.
Contrast that with the Upper Kirby District's plan to widen Kirby to the fullest extent possible within the right of way and to eliminate approximately 40 percent of the green space and pedestrian areas along Kirby from the Southwest Freeway to Westheimer Road.
While there is complete agreement and support for the infrastructure [storm sewer and utility] improvements associated with the Upper Kirby District's plans, it is time for City Council to demand a new approach in the design for Kirby — a plan that anticipates the streetscape changing from its current commercial orientation to a mixed-use and highrise residential neighborhood.
I am certain that the businesses on Kirby and residents of the area would support removing one lane of traffic in each direction and extending the green space on each side of the road to encourage pedestrian and bicycle traffic.
We have a choice: Do we want Kirby to look like a stretch of Harwin or an area every Houstonian can enjoy visiting?
B. DEE DAVIS JR.
Houston
Source: http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5156003.html |
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glide625 Learner's Permit
Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 4
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: Kirby |
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B. DEE DAVIS JR. "I am certain that the businesses on Kirby and residents of the area would support removing one lane of traffic in each direction and extending the green space on each side of the road to encourage pedestrian and bicycle traffic. We have a choice: Do we want Kirby to look like a stretch of Harwin or an area every Houstonian can enjoy visiting? "
I'm with this guy; there have to be other ways of doing this. Keep the trees and figure out a better solution. |
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crossley Bus Driver

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 77
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The median is critical. It will cut crashes basically in half, and will greatly increase the safety in the pedestrian realm. It's the only thing in the plan that's worth doing. There may be better ways to do it, but the median is critical. |
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IHB2 Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 140
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Village/SW News reported the compromise is worked out. less ROW takings, narrower median, 1 11', 2 10' lanes on each side - total width 73' - 74' at corners (up from current 66') instead of UKD planned 80'.
the article says only that the agreement is between UKD and Trees for Houston. no info on whether property owners agree or not. |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Jennifer Friedberg has a write-up in Thursday's "This Week" section:
| Jennifer Friedberg, Houston Chronicle wrote: | Neartown/River Oaks
Sept. 25, 2007, 2:58PM
Compromise reached on Kirby Drive project
By JENNIFER FRIEDBERG
Chronicle Correspondent
The Upper Kirby Redevelopment Authority and Trees for Houston reached a compromise plan for the Kirby Drive drainage and redevelopment project, with the help of District C Councilwoman Anne Clutterbuck.
Under the plan, Kirby lanes would still be widened from U.S. 59 north to Westheimer, but a larger buffer area — the area between the sidewalk and the street — would be allowed than originally proposed by the Authority, otherwise know as Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone 19.
Clutterbuck said she was pleased a compromise could be reached while still, "providing the flooding and drainage relief desperately needed for the area neighborhoods."
The impetus for the project comes from the need for better flood control in the Upper Kirby district. But the TIRZ wanted to take the opportunity to make streetscape improvements.
The Department of Public Works and Engineering initially indicated that meant lanes would need to be widened to the city standard of 11 feet.
The TIRZ also had proposed 14-foot wide medians to give pedestrians a 4-foot-wide landing space. This would have increased the amount of pavement on Kirby from curb-to-curb from 66 feet to 80 feet.
Kirby now has three travel lanes in each direction that average 9 feet, 4 inches in width and a 10-foot continuous left turn lane.
Sidewalks also would be widened from an average of 4 feet in most areas to 6 feet, as originally proposed.
The original plan would have entailed shortening the buffer zone and removing 143 live oaks and 18 smaller trees of the existing 161 trees.
The TIRZ had said it would try to save and relocate as many as possible and replace those removed on a two-for-one basis, with 250-300, 6- to 8-inch caliper trees to be planted on Kirby.
At a Sept. 15 public meeting, residents — led by Trees for Houston — told the TIRZ and council members they wanted less pavement and more room for trees.
Meets in the middle
The compromise plan meets somewhere in the middle.
It calls for 73 feet of pavement in most areas from curb to curb. The curb side lanes would be 11 feet wide; the middle and median side lanes would be 10 feet wide; and the esplanade would be 10 feet wide, expanding to 12 feet for a traffic barrier as needed at turn locations.
The sidewalks would still be expanded to an average of 6 feet, but the buffer zone would be about 3.5 feet wider on each side of the street than in the original plan to protect existing trees and pedestrians.
The plan was announced in a letter to Clutterbuck dated Sept. 21, signed by Trees for Houston president John Cutler, Upper Kirby Management District chairman Robert Axelson and TIRZ chairman Sydney "Buddy" Bailey.
The letter says the plan was a result of a Sept. 20 meeting with Public Works director Mike Marcotte.
It says the Authority presented as an option reducing Kirby to two lanes in each direction from U.S. 59 to Westheimer, but Marcotte opposed it.
"Mike Marcotte indicated that it could not be approved by the city without support of professional traffic studies that have not been performed," the letter said, "which he believed would only validate his position that two lanes would choke mobility."
After that idea was shot down, the group reached the compromise plan.
The letter does not say exactly how many trees will be saved, but states "The Trees for Houston participation in this consensus was based on the assumption that the construction plan specifications will be drawn so as to protect (insofar as reasonably possible) the trees during the construction phase, and to reasonably provide for the remaining pedestrian corridor (roughly 13.5 feet per side)."
The city's Department of Public Works and Engineering still needs to give Upper Kirby a notice to proceed, indicating that the compromise is acceptable.
The letter states Marcotte will still review the plans for safety and mobility concerns.
Travis Younkin, Upper Kirby director of capital projects, said the district would set a date for a public meeting to discuss the compromise after the city gives the green light.
Source: http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/bellaire/news/5163505.html |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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The Houston Chronicle editorial board weighed in over the weekend against widening Kirby's lanes:
| Houston Chronicle Staff wrote: | Sept. 29, 2007, 3:36PM
Upper Kirby
Street widening would extract an intolerably high price in the loss of trees and green space.
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
The Upper Kirby Redevelopment Authority, also known as Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone 19, plans to replace the storm sewers along Kirby from Richmond to West- heimer. The project would also widen Kirby's traffic lanes and rebuild the sidewalks from U.S. 59 to Westheimer.
The TIRZ's chairman, Buddy Bailey, said the project has four goals: drainage improvement; mobility and traffic safety; a pedestrian-friendly environment; and green space. However, those goals can be achieved without widening Kirby.
Increasing the amount of street pavement actually would cause more rain runoff in an area already prone to flooding. Widening lanes to make traffic move faster would increase the danger pedestrians face, not make the area more pedestrian-friendly. And reduced green space cannot logically be viewed as an enhancement of green space.
How can the TIRZ propose a plan so clearly out of whack with its stated goals?
Mayor Bill White, in a letter to Houstonians, gives tacit assent to the TIRZ plan, calling it balanced. He referred concerned residents to the TIRZ and to District C Councilwoman Anne Clutterbuck, whom White asked to forge a consensus.
The mayor can do better than that. The damage this project, as envisioned, would inflict on the environment calls for leadership from the top to protect the public interest.
In his letter, the mayor said he and various city officials were "examining the green space, pedestrian space, landscaping and trees before and after the drainage improvements are made along Kirby." He needs to communicate his conclusions to date. Time grows short. The TIRZ plans to put the project up for bid in October and break ground Jan. 1.
Clutterbuck could quickly forge her consensus if she would persuade the TIRZ to drop its plan to widen Kirby. Several principal business operators in the area said they knew little or nothing about the plan, hadn't been consulted and did not want wider pavement. Civic groups and community improvement organizations don't want it. In short, apart from the TIRZ itself, there exists strong agreement that the drainage project should avoid needlessly tearing up trees and ultimately reducing green space.
The problem with the TIRZ's plan is not so much that it was developed out of the public eye, although public input would have helped. The problem is that it is a bad plan that doesn't do what it purports to do. Upper Kirby's drainage and streetscape can be much improved if the street remains within its bounds.
Source: http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2007_4433494 |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: update |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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There's a public workshop coming up that will feature the latest developments on Kirby Drive. The Upper Kirby District will host a workshop along with the combined Super Neighborhood Councils for Afton Oaks/River Oaks and Greenway Plaza/Upper Kirby on Sat Dec 15, 2007 (invitation):
9:00 - 10:00 am Review Super Neighborhood Action Plan (SNAP) for the whole area, including residential street reconstruction in Afton Oaks.
10:00 - 11:00 am Kirby Drive reconstruction update: HOK will present an update on landscape and streetscape elements. Goodman Corporation will give a brief update on the overall Upper Kirby pedestrian streetscape master plan, which UK is submitting for federal grant consideration.
12:00 - 4:00 pm Kirby Drive design workshop. Participants will be invited to sketch and brianstorm streetscape (both hardscape and landscape) elements for the soon-to-be-rebuilt Kirby Drive. The meeting will be held at the Upper Kirby District Building, 3015 Richmond Avenue, 77098, in the first-floor "Upper Kirby" meeting room. If you have any questions, please contact Travis Younkin, UK's Capital Projects Coordinator, at (713) 524-8000 or travis@upperkirby.org.
Upper Kirby then plans to convene a public meeting in early 2008 to recap and present all of the accumulated findings and conclusions. |
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kf5nd Bus Driver
Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 966 Location: Copperfield, FM529 & Barker-Cypress
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Notice of Community Meeting |
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Upper Kirby TIRZ 19 and Upper Kirby Management District are having another community meeting to update businesses, residents, and stakeholders on the Kirby Drive storm drainage and mobility improvements, with construction scheduled to begin April 2008
Thursday, January 17, 2008
5 - 7 pm
Upper Kirby District Building
3015 Richmond
Houston TX 77098
For more info call 713-524-8000 |
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IHB2 Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 140
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Bob wrote: | Jennifer Friedberg has a write-up in Thursday's "This Week" section:
| Jennifer Friedberg, Houston Chronicle wrote: | Neartown/River Oaks
Sept. 25, 2007, 2:58PM
Compromise reached on Kirby Drive project
By JENNIFER FRIEDBERG
Chronicle Correspondent
The Upper Kirby Redevelopment Authority and Trees for Houston reached a compromise plan for the Kirby Drive drainage and redevelopment project, with the help of District C Councilwoman Anne Clutterbuck...The original plan would have entailed shortening the buffer zone and removing 143 live oaks and 18 smaller trees of the existing 161 trees.
The TIRZ had said it would try to save and relocate as many as possible and replace those removed on a two-for-one basis, with 250-300, 6- to 8-inch caliper trees to be planted on Kirby.
At a Sept. 15 public meeting, residents — led by Trees for Houston — told the TIRZ and council members they wanted less pavement and more room for trees.
The compromise plan meets somewhere in the middle...The letter does not say exactly how many trees will be saved, but states "The Trees for Houston participation in this consensus was based on the assumption that the construction plan specifications will be drawn so as to protect (insofar as reasonably possible) the trees during the construction phase, and to reasonably provide for the remaining pedestrian corridor (roughly 13.5 feet per side)."Source: http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/bellaire/news/5163505.html |
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1/22 Village/SW News reports COH forester estimates 95% of existing trees will not survive the Kirby rebuild. UKD says it plans to replace with combination of different type of oak and bald cypress trees.
Some property owners say they don't like the idea of cypress, which has no leaves for some months/yr. |
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Ian Bus Driver

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 242 Location: Eastwood, Houston
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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I know this issue is probably dead and done, but just in case there's some hope that the City can be made to see the light, I'm still applying pressure to the engineers:
A couple of points about the Kirby widening, courtesy of an article about Complete Streets in the most recent edition of the ITE Journal:
1. Increasing lane widths “increases pedestrian crossing distances (and thus pedestrian crossing times, which impact negatively on signal timing for vehicular traffic).” If there’s any doubt that Kirby will be a pedestrian boulevard within the next couple of years, take a drive down it one of these days and tour all the new high-density development. If you make Kirby wider, all those pedestrians will take longer to cross it, and you won’t be able to give as much green time to your through traffic. Many of these intersections already operate at LOS F during the peak hour, and widening the road is ironically likely to worsen that situation.
2. “Narrower travel lanes: Based on the results of a recent National Cooperative Highway Research Program study, 11-foot or 10-foot lanes in urban areas are just as safe as 12-foot lanes for posted speeds of 45 mph or less.” So those SUV-drivers might be a little less comfortable, but they’ll be just as safe.
3. Guess who won’t be as safe? Everyone else. “A pedestrian hit by a car traveling at 20 miles per hour has an 85% survivability rate” and “that same collision with a car going twice as fast, 40 mph, will lower the survivability likelihood to 15%” It’s a fact that widening lanes to the City’s one-size-fits-all suburban standards will encourage drivers to travel faster – which is probably the point. But this is an area that will be burgeoning with a pedestrian population, and any increase in vehicular speed presents an enormous increase of risk to that growing population.
4. And of course, by widening the road, you’ll be taking away from the buffer that shield pedestrians from these higher speeds. If anything, the pedestrian space should be WIDENED to accommodate a rapidly urbanizing environment; the sidewalks along Kirby are currently miniscule in spots. But under the City’s design standards, that’s not going to happen.
I don’t mean to be rude, but under the current plan for the Kirby widening, City engineers will be designing a facility that is LESS safe for the public than it currently is. Manuals and design standards are one thing; but engineers reserve the right to exercise their engineering judgment when they feel the standards are not appropriate. Please, please give this project another, objective look. And don’t be afraid to deviate from the standards a bit. |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian wrote: | A couple of points about the Kirby widening, courtesy of an article about Complete Streets in the most recent edition of the ITE Journal
[snip]
I don’t mean to be rude, but under the current plan for the Kirby widening, City engineers will be designing a facility that is LESS safe for the public than it currently is. Manuals and design standards are one thing; but engineers reserve the right to exercise their engineering judgment when they feel the standards are not appropriate. Please, please give this project another, objective look. And don’t be afraid to deviate from the standards a bit. |
Thanks, Ian! Have I mentioned lately that I just LOVE that you're a professional traffic engineer? |
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Ian Bus Driver

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 242 Location: Eastwood, Houston
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Bob wrote: |
Thanks, Ian! Have I mentioned lately that I just LOVE that you're a professional traffic engineer? |
Not "professional" yet -- give me a couple years before you start calling me that or I may get in trouble with my engineering ethics  |
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houhola Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Ian wrote: |
I don’t mean to be rude, but under the current plan for the Kirby widening, City engineers will be designing a facility that is LESS safe for the public than it currently is. |
Which "public" are you referring to here? Seems as if you're ignoring many other factors to come to this "conclusion."
Not redesigning the area will result is MORE hazards for pedestrians AND drivers and will result in increased congestion. |
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Ian Bus Driver

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 242 Location: Eastwood, Houston
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| houhola wrote: |
Which "public" are you referring to here? Seems as if you're ignoring many other factors to come to this "conclusion."
Not redesigning the area will result is MORE hazards for pedestrians AND drivers and will result in increased congestion. |
Which public do you think I'm referring to? I'm only aware of one. And I'm not saying don't touch the configuration; a center median will definitely improve traffic throughput and safety. But increasing lane widths to City standards will not increase safety and would be unlikely to increase traffic flows.
Please enlighten me: what other factors would you like me and the Institute of Transportation Engineers to consider? I'm listening. |
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houhola Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian wrote: |
Which public do you think I'm referring to? | That's why I asked. The public is all of us. The condition of the road is poor now while its design is overtaxed. Not performing a modernization only results in more hazards.
| Ian wrote: | And I'm not saying don't touch the configuration; a center median will definitely improve traffic throughput and safety. But increasing lane widths to City standards will not increase safety and would be unlikely to increase traffic flows.
Please enlighten me: what other factors would you like me and the Institute of Transportation Engineers to consider? I'm listening. | According to the Department of Transportation, for roads where speeds are lower (<45 mph), potential impacts for narrower lanes include an increase in sideswipes, lowering of free flow speeds and large vehicles offtracking onto adjacent lanes. To state emphatically that the proposed design is LESS safe is a misnomer. |
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carolcaul Bus Driver
Joined: 28 Nov 2005 Posts: 498 Location: Houston TX
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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I must have stepped off into some parallel universe. houhola has a point. There will be trucks; big trucks and itty-bitty lanes do not mix well with traffic flow or pedestrian safety.
This is a TIRZ; this is an established commercial area, and the TIRZ will have a goal not only to increase the residential tax base, but also the enterprise tax base. There will be a lot of commercial traffic, and there will be more people in the area who will need goods, not just services. That means trucks, large trucks. Calming lanes are not a good concept in that mix. [I can out tree-hug pretty much anybody else in CTC even on a bad day, and I want people using smaller footprint/no carbon-low carbon cars made in the US so we have more jobs; but there is no real solution on the horizon for big trucks.]
On the other hand, I drive a lot in Calgary. Calgary is even more pedestrian friendly downtown than San Francisco. It is nearly impossible to make a right (yes, right, not left) turn because of bad walk light sequencing. Pedestrian walk light sequencing is something that could be considered to improve turning traffic flow and safety to the pedestrians. _________________ Carol Caul |
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houhola Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| carolcaul wrote: |
Pedestrian walk light sequencing is something that could be considered to improve turning traffic flow and safety to the pedestrians. | A good design is what needs to be done in the area. Unfortunately, I fear that we'll have inebriated patrons crossing Kirby whereever they want to. |
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Bob Site Admin

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 1288 Location: Neartown Houston
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| carolcaul wrote: | | There will be trucks; big trucks and itty-bitty lanes do not mix well with traffic flow or pedestrian safety. | Let's be specific here... cars and even SUVs are only 6 feet wide, so 10-foot lanes are right-sized, not itty-bitty. Under Texas law, no vehicle -- including buses and trucks -- can be wider than 102" or 8 1/2 feet. The planned 11-foot outside lane on Kirby will accommodate trucks and buses safely.
| carolcaul wrote: | | There will be a lot of commercial traffic, and there will be more people in the area who will need goods, not just services. That means trucks, large trucks. Calming lanes are not a good concept in that mix. [snip]there is no real solution on the horizon for big trucks. | I agree that more density means more demand for freight traffic, but I'm not at all sure that we should expect more large trucks. Some major metro areas ban articulated (semi-trailers) from the densest urban areas, to reduce the impact of trucks on both safety and traffic congestion.
Further, the same factors that lead individuals to choose smaller vehicles -- fuel prices and maneuverability -- lead commercial truckers to choose smaller vehicles. There are already market shifts within the trucking industry to employ smaller vehicles:
| CNNMoney.com wrote: | | UPS is setting up strategic distribution nodes where vans can transfer packages to the ZAP Xebras for final delivery in smaller communities, neighborhoods, and downtown areas where larger delivery vans are less efficient and have a more difficult time navigating or parking. | I believe it's more important on Kirby to plan for more pedestrians than to plan for more large trucks. |
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houhola Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Bob wrote: | | Let's be specific here... cars and even SUVs are only 6 feet wide, so 10-foot lanes are right-sized, not itty-bitty. Under Texas law, no vehicle -- including buses and trucks -- can be wider than 102" or 8 1/2 feet. The planned 11-foot outside lane on Kirby will accommodate trucks and buses safely. | Assuming cars and SUVs are the only ones there yes. But your assumption is a poor one.
| Bob wrote: |
I agree that more density means more demand for freight traffic, but I'm not at all sure that we should expect more large trucks. Some major metro areas ban articulated (semi-trailers) from the densest urban areas, to reduce the impact of trucks on both safety and traffic congestion.
| And Houston has no plans to implement anything like this so ignoring the issue only adds to congestion.
| Bob wrote: |
Further, the same factors that lead individuals to choose smaller vehicles -- fuel prices and maneuverability -- lead commercial truckers to choose smaller vehicles. There are already market shifts within the trucking industry to employ smaller vehicles. I believe it's more important on Kirby to plan for more pedestrians than to plan for more large trucks. | We are all aware of this however as you drive Kirby today, there are numerous pieces of heavy equipment in operation that arrived via Kirby Dr. None of this can be downsized. The current Kirby is designed poorly to handle the volume of traffic it is handling. No one is suggesting to ignore the pedestrians but to say that they are more important than drivers is not the case. Most of the patrons of the new developments in the area will be arriving by car. Unfortunately the design of several of the new developments doesn't bode well for the pedestrian. We WILL see people crossing in the middle of the blocks. It is guaranteed. |
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kf5nd Bus Driver
Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 966 Location: Copperfield, FM529 & Barker-Cypress
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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Even if oil reaches $250 per barrel? (Gazprom opinion today). In my opinion, the oil prices are going to kill-off automotive traffic as we know it.
| houhola wrote: | | Most of the patrons of the new developments in the area will be arriving by car. |
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houhola Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| kf5nd wrote: | | Even if oil reaches $250 per barrel? (Gazprom opinion today). In my opinion, the oil prices are going to kill-off automotive traffic as we know it. |
Well, projects won't come to fruition. We've seen construction just come to a halt in some areas already. |
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kf5nd Bus Driver
Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 966 Location: Copperfield, FM529 & Barker-Cypress
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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In other words, we aren't planning for a soft landing (lost that opportunity years ago), or even a hard, controlled landing, we're just going to fly into a mountain at Mach 0.75
| houhola wrote: | | kf5nd wrote: | | Even if oil reaches $250 per barrel? (Gazprom opinion today). In my opinion, the oil prices are going to kill-off automotive traffic as we know it. |
Well, projects won't come to fruition. We've seen construction just come to a halt in some areas already. |
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Ed Browne CDL & OTR Black Belt
Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 1304 Location: Spring Branch
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| houhola wrote: | | Well, projects won't come to fruition. We've seen construction just come to a halt in some areas already. | I'm guessing that the change in the TTC is a direct result of soaring diesel costs. Even if TxDOT wanted to build the road, it simply is not feasible at these energy prices. Nevertheless, not building where the people aren't is the right decision. |
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houhola Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| kf5nd wrote: | In other words, we aren't planning for a soft landing (lost that opportunity years ago), or even a hard, controlled landing, we're just going to fly into a mountain at Mach 0.75
| No there will be a sideswipe.  |
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houhola Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed Browne wrote: | | I'm guessing that the change in the TTC is a direct result of soaring diesel costs. Even if TxDOT wanted to build the road, it simply is not feasible at these energy prices. Nevertheless, not building where the people aren't is the right decision. | So are you saying no one will be frequenting the new projects on Kirby and Westheimer cause the people aren't there? |
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Ed Browne CDL & OTR Black Belt
Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 1304 Location: Spring Branch
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| houhola wrote: | | Ed Browne wrote: | | I'm guessing that the change in the TTC is a direct result of soaring diesel costs. Even if TxDOT wanted to build the road, it simply is not feasible at these energy prices. Nevertheless, not building where the people aren't is the right decision. | So are you saying no one will be frequenting the new projects on Kirby and Westheimer cause the people aren't there? | No. The TTC is the Trans Texas Corridor. You had said that some projects had been halted already so I said ... never mind. |
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houhola Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed Browne wrote: | | You had said that some projects had been halted already so I said ... never mind. | Yes some projects on Kirby Dr. |
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Ian Bus Driver

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 242 Location: Eastwood, Houston
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed Browne wrote: | | No. The TTC is the Trans Texas Corridor. You had said that some projects had been halted already so I said ... never mind. |
I think what our esteemed friend Mr. Houhola is trying to say is that if development isn't not coming to Kirby or another location that may or may not be close to or far from Kirby, then we shouldn't even be considering the nonexistent connection between what is and what isn't the Trans Texas Horrordor. Wow, Horrordor. Can I copyright that? |
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mycarhateme Bus Driver
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 600
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Unfortunately the design of several of the new developments doesn't bode well for the pedestrian. We WILL see people crossing in the middle of the blocks. It is guaranteed. |
How is the new development bad for pedestrians? |
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houhola Bus Driver
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| mycarhateme wrote: |
How is the new development bad for pedestrians? | I didn't say the new development is bad for the pedestrian its design is. Door location is critical especially when intermixed with vehicular traffic on a major thoroughfare. All pedestrians sure won't be walking to intersections to cross Kirby. |
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Ed Browne CDL & OTR Black Belt
Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 1304 Location: Spring Branch
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| houhola wrote: | | mycarhateme wrote: |
How is the new development bad for pedestrians? | I didn't say the new development is bad for the pedestrian its design is. Door location is critical especially when intermixed with vehicular traffic on a major thoroughfare. All pedestrians sure won't be walking to intersections to cross Kirby. | Good! Jaywalking -- an heretofore untapped income stream for the city. I can see city coffers filling already.
Besides, with the trees gone, there's no incentive to use the shaded path... it's more macho to brave the faster traffic in the wider lanes and if you're afraid, drive your car across the street. |
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Ian Bus Driver

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 242 Location: Eastwood, Houston
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Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: |
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The trees are gone.
I haven't felt my heart sink like this in a long time. Just like that, we lose. All of Houston loses. So bitterly disappointing. |
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Ed Browne CDL & OTR Black Belt
Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 1304 Location: Spring Branch
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Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ian wrote: | The trees are gone.
I haven't felt my heart sink like this in a long time. Just like that, we lose. All of Houston loses. So bitterly disappointing. | They began cutting the Bunker Hill trees this past Saturday.
What I think is misunderstood is that cutting down a tree and replacing it later isn't equal from an environmental impact point of view. The trees used for replacement have been growing elsewhere and are just being moved. The CO2 removing ability of those trees that were cut is simply lost. |
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Ian Bus Driver

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 242 Location: Eastwood, Houston
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Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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From Tom Vanderbilt's Traffic blog (I love this guy):
A reader recently alerted me to yet another “trees and traffic” saga, this time in Sag Harbor, NY. Briefly, a 100-year-old black oak, beloved by neighborhood residents, was cut down after being struck by drivers in two separate incidents (one involving a rollover).
Now, it turns out the tree’s core had rotted, but what’s important here is that before this was even known, the ax was coming — because the tree, which had lasted virtually the entire history of automobile-dom, was viewed as a traffic hazard. Being generally of the mind that traffic is the hazard, I always view these claims with suspicion. This was a street marked for 25 mph. Assuming you were driving the proper speed and paying attention, how do you a.) strike something as large and obvious as a tree and b.) roll over your vehicle? (Any crash reconstructionists reading? I beg for elucidation). Trying to eliminate every potential physical hazard from the landscape to cater to some vision of crash-free driving forgets that the greatest source of risk comes from the driver himself.
Which is not to say nothing should have or could have been done; town officials claimed that a “bulb-out” or some other measure meant to wrap the road around the tree would cause the road to be too “narrow.” Too narrow according to some blanket set of prescriptions that take no heed of things like local character — and for what it’s worth, I’ve yet to see a road in the U.S. that could be described as “too narrow.” Narrow roads, moreover, are good for neighborhoods. The sad truth is the town was, perhaps rightly, more worried about litigation. And so yet another distinctive bit of the landscape was meant to be sacrificed to ensure the smooth flow of traffic, with greater safety — unless, that is, another driver weaves across the road into your path. Do you then eliminate the other lane of traffic?
The Sag Harbor Express had this to say:
“What unnerves us about this situation specifically is there appears to be a willingness on the village’s behalf to remove this tree not because it is dying, but because it appears to be a hazard due to its location in the roadway. We understand it is the village’s responsibility to protect its residents from facing untold amounts of liability as well as hazardous conditions, we are not convinced every avenue has been explored in this scenario.
We encourage the village to look at ways to keep this oak, if it is in fact a viable tree, through planning or engineering as is often done in communities committed to historic street trees that often, in their quirky way, stick out into roadways that were designed around them in the first place.
In a time where we are seeking to protect the character of our community with every tool we have, we would like to see the same initiative used on behalf of village officials in this case.
We do live in a litigious society, as Sag Harbor officials well know, dealing with a number of lawsuits over the last decade brought by people who did not have the foresight to watch their own step. We bemoan the fact that people across the country do not seem able to take responsibility for their own actions any more, rather placing the blame on someone else’s shoulders for their own errors. However, we would hate to see the village allow itself to be victimized by these very people and begin what we see as allowing that fear of litigation, in part, dictate what we deem worthy of protection.” |
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Don Gallagher Bus Driver
Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 78 Location: West Side
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: Kirby Drive versus University Line |
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| Ed Browne wrote: | | Ian wrote: | The trees are gone.
I haven't felt my heart sink like this in a long time. Just like that, we lose. All of Houston loses. So bitterly disappointing. | They began cutting the Bunker Hill trees this past Saturday.
What I think is misunderstood is that cutting down a tree and replacing it later isn't equal from an environmental impact point of view. The trees used for replacement have been growing elsewhere and are just being moved. The CO2 removing ability of those trees that were cut is simply lost. |
With all the arguing against Kirby Drive and the destruction of the oak trees, why is it that we see no complaining or demands for the removal of all the trees along the University Line?
Those trees are FAR more stately and especially the area along Greenway with the beautiful esplanades. Most are specimen quality.
METRO has stated that virtually all existing roadway lanes will remain and their solution is to remove the esplanades.
Again, why no up-in-arms fighting on this issue by this group or the Chronicle? And, I have not even looked at the other lines excep Post Oak.
Spending my whole life with landscaping and especially saving trees and shrubs, this is a travesty.
Off to China for a couple of weeks tomorrow. |
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